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Help, what are we doing wrong?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by seyzar18, May 31, 2010.

  1. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    We are having problems keeping acroporas and bird's nest in our tank... We went to the GIRS reaf show, and after having two other bird's nest die in our tank, we were talking to this dealer (first one to the left when you walk in) and he said that this "ora bird's nest" was the easiest of the bird's nest to keep. It was also the best "starter nest". He said that lighting and flow were not nearly as huge of an issue making this one easier to keep. We bought it and it was doing beautifuly for about 3 weeks and now it's turning white. Just like all of our other ones...3-4 weeks, tops. The next weekend, we found a reefer that was getting out of the hobby and bought a beautiful regular birds nest (the green and tan ones) that was huge and some acroporas also. They are all turning white now also. We have tried moving them, adjusting flow towards/around them, put them high in the tank, low in the tank, mid tank, everything that we can think of! The guy that was shutting down his tank had sold us a green staghorn frag, a green slimer frag, a purple staghorn (entire coral) and a tricolor valadia (??) along with the big birds nest. They all looked beautiful and healthey in his tank. The green staghon frag is still doing alright, along with the slimer and valadia. They do not look as nice in our tank as they did in his, but they are not white either/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif the purple staghorn is completely white, we fragged off two good branches when we noticed it was turning white and those died the next day also. The big birds nest along with the ora birds nest are slowing turning more and more white each day...what are we doing wrong? Pollyps (many different kinds), xenias, zoos, mushrooms, candy cane corals, chalise, pocillapora, hydnophora horn coral are all doing great and seem to love our tank. Just to be clear, we are not blaming the people that we got these corals from, we know it is our tank, we just don't know what is wrong with our tank...
    Our stats: 55 gal- filtered (not sumped)
    20K halide
    mag: 1200-1250
    cal: 520-540
    kH: 125.3
    nitrite: 0
    nitrate: 10- we did notice this...its normally 0 and we are using a nitrate reducer to lower it.
    pH 8.2
    RO system for water
    Reef Crystals for salt
    We are feeding/adding different things like Black Powder (they love that stuff), reef snow, phyto feast, oyster feast, reef prime, Kent marine essential elements, phyto plex and some others.  We do target feeding with all of our corals also.
    We are still "new" to this hobby, greatly adore it, but are frustrated that we can't keep some of these corals.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. snowman82

    snowman82 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
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    your calcium seems to be pretty high to me, 420 is usually where its preffered as far as your alkalinity it needs to be higher. and measure with the dkh scale on your kit and it should be around 9-11. some run it higher than that. and i see that you are not running a skimmer??? that is a must if you want to keep any kind of coral. and do you have an autotopoff?? another good thing to have other wise there is to much fluctuation with salinity and that will mess things up. and how new is the tank?? general rule of thumb is not to add any sps till tank has been established and stable for about 6 months.. thats what i see right now. oh and magnesium is at the low end but not a big deal as much as the other things. and the skimmer will help take care of nitrates. nitrate reducers end up adding other things to the tank that are uncontrollable..
     
  3. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    Sorry, we do have the duo-backpack skimmer- I'm sorry, my other half usually deals with stuff so I'm not sure of the exact name of the skimmer. Now that I am looking through our test kit notes, it looks as though right after we went to the show, which I believe was the 15thish???, our calcium was at 460 and the alkalinity was at 11. We did not have the magnesium kit then. on May 24th, calcium was 560, then we got the magnesium test kit and that started at 1100, went to 1150 the next day and calcium at 520. Now are magnesium is up to 1200 and calcium to 540.
    Our tank is about 8 months old, started adding corals (all the ones that like our tank) about 6 months ago.
    I am not sure what the autotopoff is but I am pretty sure we do not have one
    What do recommend for lowering calcium and rasing alkalinity?
    Is it possible that we added to much all at once? We are wanting a bigger tank, Girs has recommended holding out for 120g for our 4 ft space. Will that help?
     
  4. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +41 / 2 / -0
    just out of curiosity how long has this tank been up and running? and are you running a skimmer? It sounds like your adding a ton of various foods into the tank which can end badly.
     
  5. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    Which foods do you all recommend? We don't add all of them at the same time, we mix it up. Should we only use a couple of them and keep in consistent? We were using different ones because it was recommended to us by different sites and our pet stores. I will try anything to save these corals and get this figured out. I replied to another post, but you might not have seen it yet, we do have a "duo-backpack skimmer" (I think that is what its called). And the tank has been up for 8 months. Thanks again for all of your help!!!
     
  6. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    What is your tank temp and how much does it swing on a daily basis? I'd be worried about a 55 with no sump and MH lighting, that seems like a recipie for major temp swings. SPS generally don't like high temps, so if your tank is swinging to/above 85 that might be an issue. How long do you have the lights on for daily?

    Also, your calcium does seem a bit high. I would try lowering it (or let it lower itself) to about 440 and then use the reef chemistry calculator to make sure that your alk and calcium are in balance (VERY important for good growth). Also, raise your mag above 1350

    The fact that your corals are bleaching rather than not growing makes me think it's a temp related problem.

    Reef Chemistry Cacluclator: http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

    -JB
     
  7. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    Have you checked for ammonia or swapped out bulbs?

    Tons of shrroms or zoas puts lots of nasty chemical warfare stuff in the water. Do you run carbon?
     
  8. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    The first day that it got very hot, our tank did hit 85 degrees, but we got it back down to 82 degrees that same day. We do not have a chiller on it (have thought about it but can't afford it), but have figured out a fan method of when to turn the fan on and off with the lights. Over the last week, the tank has stayed between 79 and 81 degrees consistently. The lights are on from noon-9pm everyday. Would the temp swing from that one day have hurt them enough to bleach them all out? I am not familiar with reef chemistry calculator yet, my fiance might be but I have not heard him talk about it yet. I will look into that after I post this, but I will probably have more questions about that/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif Thanks everybody!!!
    Also, how do you go about letting the calcium lower itself?
    I just remembered this, right after we added the corals from the coral show, our tube amenonme released itself from its tube and landed on our carpet amenome (they are no separate ends of the tank). Both survived and were doing fine, we did a major water change, which I'm sure wasn't great for the new corals but we thought it was needed due to them "raging war on each other". Would that have set all the corals up to fail? But we didn't add the acrapora and other birdsnest until the next weekend...
     
  9. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    We do not have alot of shrooms and zoas, just a couple of small rocks with some on them. Counting I would say 8-10 mushrooms tops, and 3 small collonies for Zoa with 10-15 each. Is that considered "tons"? From other tanks that we have seen, I guess I would say that we have very few compared to some other people. And what do you mean by do we "run carbon"? We have carbon filters in our filter system...
     
  10. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    Ammonia was 0 and the hallide was just changed last month.
     
  11. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Corals deplete calcium levels as they grow. Allow it to lower by not adding using any additives that boost calcium or switching to a lower calcium salt (like Instant Ocean) temporarily. 85 is pretty hot. It's tough to say if one spike would cause the problem or not but that's definitely something you want to watch.

    If you're going to be running an SPS tank, a good controller is almost a must have. They can really help with stability in a system and you can get a starter controller (like the Neptune Aqua Controller Jr.) for relatively cheap.

    -JB
     
  12. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

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    +0 / 0 / -0
    what filter system are you using? if your using like a biowheel type filter id like to suggest you dump the wheels. dont bother using the filters either, and if you dont have already get the little empty cartridges for em and put carbon in those. I have a 55gal sumpless also with Mh lights.

    1 thing i didnt see was your SG. how are you topping off your water levels. Also I could be wrong but you probably do not need to be feeding phyto. Also doesing essential elements and such. In theroy you are actually dosing these things when you do water changes. I have mixed feelings on target feeding. it can lend to over feeding sometimes and IMO is not needed. Are you dosing calcium? If so, again you probably do not need to. Things like purple up is calcium.
     
  13. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +41 / 2 / -0
    Personally I think before you add subtract or get to broken hearted, you guys should figure out what corals you'd like to keep and what it will take to keep those corals(and keep them healthy). Running a reef tank is hard enough as a new reef keeper, running a mixed reef is even harder. I would stick to the soft corals and get good at basic husbandry before slamming into corals that even experienced reef keeps can't keep alive. It's all about knowing what your corals need and how to provide that to them.
     
  14. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

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    +0 / 0 / -0
    great advice galaspie.
     
  15. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Yes, mixed reefs can be really tough. Once things start to grown out, the softies and the SPS will fight for space. I'm speaking from first hand experience.

    -JB
     
  16. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    mthomp: Our filter system is the emperor 400. It does have wheels at the top. So you recommend making our own filters? We went to a aquatic shop in omaha and they recommended the same thing. They said that if they knew you had a saltwater tank, they would refuse to sell a pre-made filter. They insisted on buying the carbon and making your own. The aquatic shops in Des Moines do not necessarily agree and do not sell just carbon. We are not dosing calcium besides what comes with a water change with the reef crystals. Out SG is consitanty at 1.025. Due to evaporation we add 1-2 gallons of RO water everyday to every other day. This is not salt mixed. We only add the salt mixed water during an actual water change.
    I am interested to know more about your tank since it sounds similar to ours. What do you feed? What do you use to keep your levels consistent? what salt do you use? Do you think that the phyto is adding elements that we do not need?
    Thanks again for everybody's help!
     
  17. seyzar18

    seyzar18 Inactive User

    214
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    So what would probably be best would be to let these guys die out, or just take them out all together, and let what is living and thriving do its thing until we get more experienced? That is not the answer that I wanted/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/sad.gif But I do understand why you say that. We do really like the birds nest, hence why we keep trying them. We had gone awhile with out them and were holding out for the show, we thought for sure that we had it figured out and in all actuallity, I think we did have it figured out for what we had/have. We were very excited about the ORA birdsnest because it was "easier to keep" but obviously, not easy enough. I am learning that this a patient hobby/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif
     
  18. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

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    I dont have much equipment at all Seyzar. I buy my saltwater premixed from AE. As far as your filter goes it is the exact same one i use and like i said, it is used for water movment and carbon. I just use the empty grey cartridges and fill those with carbon. I have BH 1000 HoB reef octopus skimmer. and 2 number2 korellas. I cant belive they dont sell containers of carbon. I do very little to my tank to be honest, I found it works best for me. I only feed rodsfood and i broadcast feed 1 time a day with lights on. and 1 or 2 times a week wit lights off.

    Now keep in mind i do not have sps in my tank, i have tried with 2 frags and i failed, but my tank and experiance was like 1 month. I also only have 2 fish currently and since i do not have a sump plan on maxing out around 5 with my maroon clown being the largest full grown. If you have any questions about my setup send me pm and ill give ya my number.
     
  19. FishBrain Expert Reefkeeper

    New London
    Ratings:
    +399 / 6 / -0
    I agree with all of the above and would add that it dosen't seem like you have enough flow for sps.
     
  20. Reefdumb

    Reefdumb Inactive User

    224
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    Have you thought about seeing if anyone in your area can babysit your sps or try to get them to come around, in another members tank. I got the green bird nest from th same vender and its doing good.
     

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